Contributed by Jody Ray
Husband, Dad, Pastor, Christ Follower, Aspiring Semiotician and Futurist
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09/27/2010
Bono Interview: Grace Over Karma
Bono Interview: Grace Over Karma
(Excerpt from the book Bono: In Conversation with Michka Assayas
)
Bono: My understanding of the Scriptures has been made simple by the person of Christ. Christ teaches that God is love. What does that mean? What it means for me: a study of the life of Christ. Love here describes itself as a child born in straw poverty, the most vulnerable situation of all, without honor. I don't let my religious world get too complicated. I just kind of go: Well, I think I know what God is. God is love, and as much as I respond [sighs] in allowing myself to be transformed by that love and acting in that love, that's my religion. Where things get complicated for me, is when I try to live this love. Now that's not so easy.
Assayas: What about the God of the Old Testament? He wasn't so "peace and love"?
Bono: There's nothing hippie about my picture of Christ. The Gospels paint a picture of a very demanding, sometimes divisive love, but love it is. I accept the Old Testament as more of an action movie: blood, car chases, evacuations, a lot of special effects, seas dividing, mass murder, adultery. The children of God are running amok, wayward. Maybe that's why they're so relatable. But the way we would see it, those of us who are trying to figure out our Christian conundrum, is that the God of the Old Testament is like the journey from stern father to friend. When you're a child, you need clear directions and some strict rules. But with Christ, we have access in a one-to-one relationship, for, as in the Old Testament, it was more one of worship and awe, a vertical relationship. The New Testament, on the other hand, we look across at a Jesus who looks familiar, horizontal. The combination is what makes the Cross.
Assayas: Speaking of bloody action movies, we were talking about South and Central America last time. The Jesuit priests arrived there with the gospel in one hand and a rifle in the other.
Bono: I know, I know. Religion can be the enemy of God. It's often what happens when God, like Elvis, has left the building. [laughs] A list of instructions where there was once conviction; dogma where once people just did it; a congregation led by a man where once they were led by the Holy Spirit. Discipline replacing discipleship. Why are you chuckling?
Assayas: I was wondering if you said all of that to the Pope the day you met him.
Bono: Let's not get too hard on the Holy Roman Church here. The Church has its problems, but the older I get, the more comfort I find there. The physical experience of being in a crowd of largely humble people, heads bowed, murmuring prayers, stories told in stained-glass windows
Assayas: So you won't be critical.
Bono: No, I can be critical, especially on the topic of contraception. But when I meet someone like Sister Benedicta and see her work with AIDS orphans in Addis Ababa, or Sister Ann doing the same in Malawi, or Father Jack Fenukan and his group Concern all over Africa, when I meet priests and nuns tending to the sick and the poor and giving up much easier lives to do so, I surrender a little easier.
Assayas: But you met the man himself. Was it a great experience?
Bono: [W]e all knew why we were there. The Pontiff was about to make an important statement about the inhumanity and injustice of poor countries spending so much of their national income paying back old loans to rich countries. Serious business. He was fighting hard against his Parkinson's. It was clearly an act of will for him to be there. I was oddly moved by his humility, and then by the incredible speech he made, even if it was in whispers. During the preamble, he seemed to be staring at me. I wondered. Was it the fact that I was wearing my blue fly-shades? So I took them off in case I was causing some offense. When I was introduced to him, he was still staring at them. He kept looking at them in my hand, so I offered them to him as a gift in return for the rosary he had just given me.
Assayas: Didn't he put them on?
Bono: Not only did he put them on, he smiled the wickedest grin you could ever imagine. He was a comedian. His sense of humor was completely intact. Flashbulbs popped, and I thought: "Wow! The Drop the Debt campaign will have the Pope in my glasses on the front page of every newspaper."
Assayas: I don't remember seeing that photograph anywhere, though.
Bono: Nor did we. It seems his courtiers did not have the same sense of humor. Fair enough. I guess they could see the T-shirts.
Later in the conversation:
Assayas: I think I am beginning to understand religion because I have started acting and thinking like a father. What do you make of that?Bono: Yes, I think that's normal. It's a mind-blowing concept that the God who created the universe might be looking for company, a real relationship with people, but the thing that keeps me on my knees is the difference between Grace and Karma.
Assayas: I haven't heard you talk about that.
Bono: I really believe we've moved out of the realm of Karma into one of Grace.
Assayas: Well, that doesn't make it clearer for me.
Bono: You see, at the center of all religions is the idea of Karma. You know, what you put out comes back to you: an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, or in physics; in physical laws every action is met by an equal or an opposite one. It's clear to me that Karma is at the very heart of the universe. I'm absolutely sure of it. And yet, along comes this idea called Grace to upend all that "as you reap, so you will sow" stuff. Grace defies reason and logic. Love interrupts, if you like, the consequences of your actions, which in my case is very good news indeed, because I've done a lot of stupid stuff.
Assayas: I'd be interested to hear that.
Bono: That's between me and God. But I'd be in big trouble if Karma was going to finally be my judge. I'd be in deep s---. It doesn't excuse my mistakes, but I'm holding out for Grace. I'm holding out that Jesus took my sins onto the Cross, because I know who I am, and I hope I don't have to depend on my own religiosity.
Assayas: The Son of God who takes away the sins of the world. I wish I could believe in that.
Bono: But I love the idea of the Sacrificial Lamb. I love the idea that God says: Look, you cretins, there are certain results to the way we are, to selfishness, and there's a mortality as part of your very sinful nature, and, let's face it, you're not living a very good life, are you? There are consequences to actions. The point of the death of Christ is that Christ took on the sins of the world, so that what we put out did not come back to us, and that our sinful nature does not reap the obvious death. That's the point. It should keep us humbled . It's not our own good works that get us through the gates of heaven.
Assayas: That's a great idea, no denying it. Such great hope is wonderful, even though it's close to lunacy, in my view. Christ has his rank among the world's great thinkers. But Son of God, isn't that farfetched?
Bono: No, it's not farfetched to me. Look, the secular response to the Christ story always goes like this: he was a great prophet, obviously a very interesting guy, had a lot to say along the lines of other great prophets, be they Elijah, Muhammad, Buddha, or Confucius. But actually Christ doesn't allow you that. He doesn't let you off that hook. Christ says: No. I'm not saying I'm a teacher, don't call me teacher. I'm not saying I'm a prophet. I'm saying: "I'm the Messiah." I'm saying: "I am God incarnate." And people say: No, no, please, just be a prophet. A prophet, we can take. You're a bit eccentric. We've had John the Baptist eating locusts and wild honey, we can handle that. But don't mention the "M" word! Because, you know, we're gonna have to crucify you. And he goes: No, no. I know you're expecting me to come back with an army, and set you free from these creeps, but actually I am the Messiah. At this point, everyone starts staring at their shoes, and says: Oh, my God, he's gonna keep saying this. So what you're left with is: either Christ was who He said He was the Messiah or a complete nutcase. I mean, we're talking nutcase on the level of Charles Manson. This man was like some of the people we've been talking about earlier. This man was strapping himself to a bomb, and had "King of the Jews" on his head, and, as they were putting him up on the Cross, was going: OK, martyrdom, here we go. Bring on the pain! I can take it. I'm not joking here. The idea that the entire course of civilization for over half of the globe could have its fate changed and turned upside-down by a nutcase, for me, that's farfetched
Bono later says it all comes down to how we regard Jesus:
Bono: If only we could be a bit more like Him, the world would be transformed. When I look at the Cross of Christ, what I see up there is all my s--- and everybody else's. So I ask myself a question a lot of people have asked: Who is this man? And was He who He said He was, or was He just a religious nut? And there it is, and that's the question. And no one can talk you into it or out of it.
Recommended Reading on U2 and Christianity: We Get to Carry Each Other: The Gospel according to U2 | Walk on: The Spiritual Journey of U2
Posted in Faith, God, Interviews, Jesus Christ, Music, Theology, U2 | Permalink
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WOW, WOW, this is one of the best explanations of Christ and the reason He walked the earth and died for my sins. Bless you Bono, for sharing from your heart the Truth that sets people truly free from their death sentence! Amen! Amen!
Posted by: Jennifer | 01/17/2011 at 03:36 PM
Fantastic interview with Bono. He certainly has a way with words. :)
Posted by: Mmaryannwright | 02/20/2011 at 07:41 PM
What a load of non sense.
How can a human be the son of god? What are the actual mechanics of a god creating a son? What does it even mean to be the "son" of a god?
Lets suspend logic for a moment and pretend that Mary immaculately conceived... OK, so how does this actually work? We need gametes from two individuals... I am assuming god does not have DNA or spxrm... How did all that actually work? Was marys eggs immaculately fertilized? Assuming the laws of physics and biology still apply god would need to have synthesized a gamete cell or the DNA and injected it into the egg so it could be fertilized. Did it appear out of thin air? If I was there at the time with a microscope what would I have seen? Anything unusual?
Ok lets say we go back in time and do a DNA test on christ. What does the DNA show? Does it show some supernatural DNA? Im guessing it must as he died and was reborn after several days which is never been seen in a human (let alone animal). What if the DNA seems normal, or in fact matches that of Joseph or other random male. What does it all mean then?
Oh wow I could go on forever.
I guess its easier just not to think about it right? :)
Posted by: Jack | 02/21/2011 at 03:11 PM
Excellent interview and explanation of Christ! Bono, you tha man :)
Posted by: Lachlan | 02/21/2011 at 03:26 PM
@Jack - Let's just presume that God is who He says He is and did all the things that He / the Bible says He did. In that case, how trivial is it for Him to handle the smallest details of physics or biology? Besides, all of our sciences are just humanity's attempt at understanding what God has already done.
All God wants is to have a relationship with you and me. That was the whole purpose in Jesus being born, to restore that relationship possibility.
If I am wrong, then call me a fool. But if I am right...
Posted by: txblackbird | 02/21/2011 at 07:54 PM
Jack,
You say the Incarnation is a load of nonsences. Fine. Are you willing to compare loads of nonsense?
You have no sin. True or load of nonsense?
You have sin, but you can save yourself. True or load of nonsense?
You are better than most people. True or load of nonsense?
The optic nerve just fell into shape by itself. In one species, a female got the mutation of the whole complex nerve for sight. Was that before or after the mutation of the eyeball and the mutation of the part of the brain that can interpret signals from the eyeball and the optic nerve. Oh wait, the eyeball has many complex subsystems itself. During her lifetime and childbearing years, a male of her same species got the exact same complex optic nerve mutation. In world 28,000 miles around, they met each other. Their combined recessive genes produced an offspring with the new recessive trait. Fine. Now you have one gender in the 2nd generation of one species with a recessive trait. How does it go onward? Incest? And how does it get to other species. How does the same chaotic mutation come about in so orderly a manner in thousands of species? With eyeballs, lenses, retinas, and brain centers to boot. True, or a load of nonsense.
Watch the Science Channel. In one program about geologic ages, they tell us life has evolved over hundreds of billions of years. The very next program is about quantum physics and the solar system. They tell us our sun is 4.5 billion years old. How, if our sun is only 4.5 billion years old, has life on earth evolved over hundreds of billions of years? True, or a load of nonsense?
The science of geological uniformatarianism said there could be no such thing as meteorites. So they went through the libraries and museums of Europe and threw out all the meteorites. Don't let hard facts like rocks get in the way of the closed-minded dogmas of "science." That rock is not a rock because science says it can't exist. True, or a load of nonsense.
Like you said, wow, I could go on forever.
Posted by: T. R. Halvorson | 02/21/2011 at 09:38 PM
God bless you Jack but you know dont know jack. Your modern science fails you, just watch "expelled no intelligence allowed" sometime. Or the fact that the most of science was first done by God fearing people or that one of the smartest modern scientist Michio Kaku believes in God and thinks science can prove his existence. Do you really think that human beings can ever totally ever understand the things of God.We live in one universe and there may be an infinite amount of others that might all effect one and other in ways we may never be able to understand and it all was made by God and He holds it all in His hands and made it all for His glory and so that we and whatever beings out there may all exist in perfect love one day. What could be more amazing or beautiful or exiting than that! And by the way evolutionism and survival of the fittest goes against everything that Jesus was about, He lived and died for the least and weakest of us so that he could save us from ourselves. Greater love has no man (or the Son of GOD) that he would lay down his life for his friends.
Posted by: gee | 02/21/2011 at 11:54 PM
@txblackbird
"Let's just presume that God is who He says He is and did all the things that He / the Bible says He did. In that case, how trivial is it for Him to handle the smallest details of physics or biology?"
Using that logic we can "presume" anything that suits us, and by doing so we can "explain" anything, even the impossible. "Lets just presume that 2+2=5. In that case how trivial is it to make 2 divide 5 with no remainder?"
Can you attempt to answer any of my questions? What did the immaculate conception look like at the microscopic level?
"Besides, all of our sciences are just humanity's attempt at understanding what God has already done."
"Just" attempting to understand "gods work" sounds like a pretty noble and worthwhile cause to me. In which case can I presume you are pro science and interested in scientific discoveries?
"All God wants is to have a relationship with you and me. That was the whole purpose in Jesus being born, to restore that relationship possibility."
If God is all powerful, why did he allow us to fall out of this relationship to begin with? Just seems like he is making things difficult. What is his goal in all this?
Posted by: Jack | 02/22/2011 at 03:08 AM
@T. R. Halvorson
"You have no sin. True or load of nonsense?"
"You have sin, but you can save yourself. True or load of nonsense?"I would have to say: a load of nonsense. If I don't beleive there is such thing as sin the question becomes impossible to answer. I might as well ask you "You have googleplonkerzones. True or a load of nonsense?"
You are better than most people. True or load of nonsense?
In this case I would have to say: False dichotomy. I do not believe that to be true in the folk-sense (To give a precise answer I would need to understand how you would assess "better" - perhaps in some ways I am, in others not). At the same time I would not describe the question as nonsense because it would generally be understood to some degree by most people.
"The optic nerve just fell into shape by itself..."
From what I can tell from that paragraph I think you might be a bit confused on how evolution works and what claims have been made about it.
To start of with nobody has *ever* claimed that any complex function or organ has ever arisen through a single genetic mutation. Please provide a reference to a paper making this claim. Or even any scientist making this claim in passing.
If you want understand how the eye evolved then have a read of the wikipedia article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_of_the_eye). Again you wont find any claims that any complex function resulted from a single genetic mutation.
"How does the same chaotic mutation come about in so orderly a manner in thousands of species?"
Because the species are related (cousins) and the genetic information (multiple accumulated mutations that comprise all the information needed to build eyes, or variations of) has been passed down through the generations. Also the "chaotic mutation" was not a single mutation. It was a long series of non-deleterious single mutation, some of which conferred a fitness advantage and were thus selected for (increased in the population) the end result of which is a complex set of genes that can allow a complex function such as an eye.
Incidentally I believe the eye (or organs with similar function) is a structure theorized to have evolved in parallel in different species. If you want to know more about this google for "parallel" or "divergent evolution".
"Watch the Science Channel. In one program about geologic ages, they tell us life has evolved over hundreds of billions of years."
First of all the Science Channel is a popular TV broadcaster not an authority on anything. Hence any discrepancy is proof of nothing more than poor journalism. The other likely explanation is poor memory of the viewer.
If you can show me a reference to a paper that claims the life on earth has evolved over a longer time period than the age of the solar system I would be very interested, although I doubt its a commonly asserted idea. (I suppose this is actually possible if you subscribe to the meteorite theory of abiogenisis)
Lol, I like the way you state this "Science Channel" factoid as some sort of "gotcha". Hehe, science caught in the act of making stuff up! :D
"Don't let hard facts like rocks get in the way of the closed-minded dogmas of "science."
Science is not dogmatic. Thats the whole point! Thats how come we know so much more than we ever used to. Its because science is always learning and adapting (or throwing out) theories to match the evidence that presents itself.
Posted by: Jack | 02/22/2011 at 03:44 AM
@gee
The first scientists were "god fearing". So, what is your point? Science had to start somewhere, and if everyone at a given point in time was a christian then the first scientists were bound to be christians. Its circumstantial.
"one of the smartest modern scientist Michio Kaku believes in God and thinks science can prove his existence"
Again I ask, So? Most scientists do not believe in god. If you can find 1, I can find 50. If you want to line up "smartest" scientists and count what each believes then I can guarantee you will lose on numbers. Or perhaps being Michio Kaku somehow overpowers them with his huge science brain! :)
Also does this Michio Kaku believe in your god? Does he beleive in all your christian stories and traditions? If not, then does that mean he is not so smart after all? Are you going to throw the baby out with the bathwater?
"Do you really think that human beings can ever totally ever understand the things of God."
Well "things of god" is meaningless to me. But if you mean "the universe and everything in it" then my personal guess is: No. The reason being for every answer there is always another question: Why?
And guess what even if we stick god in there, "Why?" will still exist. "God" answers nothing, it just makes for more questions!
"We live in one universe and there may be an infinite amount of others that might all effect one and other in ways we may never be able to understand and it all was made by God and He holds it all in His hands and made it all for His glory and so that we and whatever beings out there may all exist in perfect love one day. "
Right. And what is god doing in all these other universes? Why did he create them? I though it was all about humans and our relationship with god? Why is he messing around with other universes? In fact why is he even messing around with one universe? Why some many billions of galaxies each with billions of stars? If there is sentient life on those planets then how does Jesus fit in? Did jesus come to earth, on the opposite side of the universe in order to save the green alpha centurians? Are aliens meant to be christian? I guess alient life does not really fit into the christians playbook because no one conceived of such an idea in the bronze age.
I take it you are talking metaphorically when you say "hands". Because this god thing is surely nothing like a human with hands etc. Why would he have hands when he is floating about in hyperspace? Seems strange. If he does have hands I assume he also has organs such a bladder and bowels? Doesnt that seem a strange idea to you?
I have a hard time parsing that stuff about "made for his glory ... perfect love". What does all that even mean? Why does this all powerful god want glory? Seems like a very petty emotion. Does he need self esteem? Is that the only way he can get it, by setting up weird schemes like messiahs and tests for life forms? What does existing in perfect love mean? Is this like the afterlife or something? The idea of having anything perfect seems a bit strange... surely you would get bored of it because there was nothing left to strive or improve yourself for? Also it sounds like a mess orgy. Also weird.
"And by the way evolutionism and survival of the fittest goes against everything that Jesus was about"
Thats kinda unfortunate because evolution is a fact, and evolution by natural selection is a theory that seems to fit the evidence perfectly. Which kinda leaves Jesus in a difficult position. Either that or your interpretation of Jesus vs evolution is wrong (no doubt I can find a zillion christians who disagree on your point too!).
Do you have a dog? That evolved! It evolved from a wolf. In fact it doesnt take long to replicate the experiment yourself. The same goes for brocolli as we know it today. It didnt exist a few thousand years ago. Humans evolved it via artificial selection. Natural selection can also been seen happening in numerous species even over short periods of time! (check out the pepper moth http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peppered_moth_evolution )
"Greater love has no man (or the Son of GOD) that he would lay down his life for his friends."
What is so special about sacrificing your child to save all of humanity? I suspect a large number of humans would willingly do this even though it would not be especially pleasant. Hardly makes god a super human.
Posted by: Jack | 02/22/2011 at 04:24 AM
Jack,
You are right, of course, that the evolution of something like the optic nerve would be much more involved than the simple, summarized way I reviewed it. (We're on blog, after all. Some summarizing of things that take hundred of billion of years must be indulged.)
Which case does that help?
If I presented it too simply, and still its improbability is incalculably enormous, then does it somehow become more probable when you point out that it is way more complex than I said? Since you are right that it would take many, many, many more steps than I said, doesn't that add to the improbability?
Posted by: T. R. Halvorson | 02/22/2011 at 06:36 AM
While these responses and conversations are intellectually stimulating and fascinating, I would pose a thought: Science is important and we should use it to understand the world in which we live, but if God is God, he alone could suspend the rules for a time could he not?
To get to the quick, or the real question for me is not how God did what he did or whether he used guided evolution or creation (these do matter but are secondary questions) rather can we trust what Christ said about himself? And if so, what does that mean for us? From this point each of us has a choice which is between us and God alone.
I'll leave you with a favorite quote of mine, "he knew the power of science but also its impotence to make us wise or happy or good." Kreeft about Pascal
All the best to each of you.
JWPosted by: Jared | 02/22/2011 at 10:34 AM
I've always wondered how people don't believe in at least some kind of Creator. The first law of Thermodynamics says that matter can neither be created nor destroyed. So, if there was a big bang or whatever, where did all that matter that exploded come from in the first place? "Science" seems to contradict itself on that point. God is not bound by the law of physics; He invented those laws. So, an immacuate conception or rising from the dead doesn't seem so hard when you can literally create something from nothing. And refusing to believe in something simply b/c you can't understand every detail is foolish... Understanding everything about God is impossible, about as impossible as an amoeba trying to understand how humans work. As far as evolution goes, I'm always amazed at how much faith it takes to believe in evolution. There are so many examples of this but my favorite has to do with the Cambrian explosion.... the time when all the major animal phyla show up AT THE SAME TIME which is exactly the opposite of what evolution claims. Even Darwin admitted that his theory would be proven wrong if the fossil record didn't eventaully support it (which and honest study of it leaves more quesitons than answers and ironically requires a whole lot of faith to fill in the gaps). If anyone is (honestly) searching and not just looking for a good argument, I'd recommend reading The Case For A Creator, by Lee Strobel. Excellent read.
Posted by: Ben | 02/22/2011 at 11:41 AM
Excellent interview. I've always liked Bono but never knew his spiritual views. I'm surprisingly impressed.
Posted by: Jackigreene | 02/22/2011 at 11:43 AM
Why not accept that science is a creation of God. Even cosmologists are coming to the conclusion that they more they study the physical universe, the more it points to design and "something" bigger than all of us is the designer. Now Jack, I'm sure that won't convince you there is a God. Simply defaulting to evolutionary observances doesn't disprove there is a God either. All I can say is, it may take a life changing experience like I had to convince you. I was a believer before this experience, but I was a poor follower of Christ. The experience I speak of was not a physical ailment miraculously cured, or anything like that. It was something that nearly ripped my heart and my family apart at an emotional and spiritual level. It came to the point of acknowledging and facing the evil around and in me. If there is evil, there is good in the world. But is wasn't that kind of decision, it was despite my bitterness and behaviors which lead me down the path I was on, Christ was there. It's hard to put into words what the experience means to me except I can tell you, there is no question in my mind, God exists and loves you.
Posted by: Matt | 02/22/2011 at 12:03 PM
@Jack: There is a way that I can prove to you (and you can prove to yourself whether or not) Jesus Christ is real, is God, and is in fact, the Son of God. It is very simple; all it takes is an open mind. If you really, truly want to know the truth, simply ask Him (Jesus) to reveal himself to you.
Then get ready for the ride of your life :)
Posted by: LS Morgan | 02/22/2011 at 12:04 PM
Ben, et al: Another excellent read is Mere Christianity by C.S. Lewis. It's certainly not an exhaustive account of all the questions that are posed about Christianity (by both non-Christians and Christians alike), but I think he does a great job of breaking things down rationally and logically and also offers food for thought on understanding the topics such as free will and good/evil. Most of his discussions stem from his own time as an atheist so the discussion is not completely one-sided.
Everyone's path to faith is different and, while I'm certainly no expert, I think the path can be walked in light of the facts not in spite of them. This is an interesting dialogue. Thanks Bono! ;-)
Posted by: JS | 02/22/2011 at 12:42 PM
These tears are for the ones so sadly that will burn in hell due to pride of their own intelligence. I pray God gives you the time and experiences you need to change before it is too late for you. My own experience with God is something I would love to share but all that I say or do will never be as convincing as when you yourself accept Christ into your life. I do have an honest question..who do you live your life for? If not for God? This is a question you should take days to answer. Evaluate. I have found that question many timse comforting but also alarming at times when I know what the real answer was because the truth is it is our human nature to want to live for ourselves or even our children or parents. But when you live for God things change. You put yourself not so high. This is not due to just us changing. This is due to Christ working thru you. I know deep huh? But I am telling you it is something most Christians have a hard time explaining to non believers. Its like trying to tell a person what an orange tastes like. They can smell it feel it and listen to you describe it but they will never know until they experience it. All you can do is hope and pray for God to soften their hearts and accept him into their life. Arguing and insults have only put you on a whole new ground. They have free will. That will be on their head. My daughter says she can't wait until the rapture. I tell her she should pray it is delayed because its going to send so many to a torturous hell. I am not a prophet but I feel it is near and I must warn non believers even though I know they will mock me. It is nothing like what my Jesus did for me. Please pray this prayer....God forgive me of my sins. I truly pray you will come into my life. I accept you and I believe you are the maker of heaven and earth. I also believe that Jesus Christ is the son of the living God. I pray that you change my heart and make me new in you. Satin I bind you from any plans you have to try and destroy me and this new found relationship with God. In Jesus's name I pray Amen
Posted by: Tiffany | 02/22/2011 at 12:42 PM
I really enjoyed Bono's view of Christ. I pray that my Karma will end in Grace. God Bless everyone :)
Posted by: shari | 02/22/2011 at 01:51 PM
I find some of the postings and debate on this blog pretty humorous. It's pretty simple, and Bono summarized it in the last sentence when he said, "And was He who He said He was, or was He just a religious nut? And there it is, and that's the question. And no one can talk you into it or out of it."
So, if you think I'm a nut because I believe Jesus is who He said He is, then debating our relative position becomes an exercise in futility and is a waste of time for both of us. Nothing I can say will change your mind, and nothing you can say will change mine. We could both present equal amounts of "evidence" to support our position, and at the end of hours of debate, nothing would have changed. It really boils down to the fact that both of us have a faith system - mine is faith in God, and yours is faith in the non-existence of God.
Call me a fool if you like - it doesn't bother me in the least - many throughout history have been called that before, only to have generations that followed prove that they were actually wise beyond belief. Only time (and death) will tell which of us is the fool, and I'm quite content and comfortable with my mortality and what will happen to me upon my passing. If you are as well, then I congratulate you and wish you a wonderful life full of joy and peace. One of us will be wrong and one will be right - if you are, then I have lost nothing - if you are, then you will have lost everything.
Posted by: Paul Anderson | 02/22/2011 at 02:01 PM
Bono was right when he said either Jesus is who He said He is... or he's not... and no one can convince you of it.
It's not up to us as believers to convince people of the deity of Christ. We can tell them of our own experiences in our own lives and how we have encountered God but, we don't really change people's minds about Him. We have the Bible as the Word of God... and people either encounter God when they read it with an open heart and mind, or they view it as a collection of stories. God is the one who changes people's hearts and minds, in time. I think it all boils down to seeking Truth. And when we really are looking for THAT... not back-up for an argument... we encounter The Almighty.Posted by: Sarah | 02/22/2011 at 03:35 PM
I think we're jumping on Jack's back a bit here. Expressing a genuine curiosity regarding the way a miraculous event occurs in the known physical realm is totally legit. I'm curious too. What was Jesus' DNA? Our doctrine says He was fully man and fully God. I find that amazing and fascinating and would love to know how that worked.
However, as someone who has chosen to believe in the Bible and it's Author, I am willing to suspend my understanding of the physical world to accept that the Creator of the physical world also created the laws that govern it. He, therefore has the ability and authority to operate outside of our knowledge of their bounds. So, there is something futile in trying to explain the possibility (or impossibility) of a Supernatural being by using natural laws as our only basis. A Supernatural being, by nature, does not need to submit to natural laws.
Granted, this is a rather unfair position for people of faith to take in a debate scenario. As soon as we get backed into a corner, we just throw up our hands and say 'God did it! So there.' I can understand the frustration of secularists that want to honestly engage in conversation about matters of God's existence only to be drawn into a debate that is impossible to resolve because we drop the 'God can do whatever He wants' bomb on them -- even though, in my belief structure, that is true.
Jack, I would like to assume that you are looking for honest answers, not merely looking for a fight. If you're looking for a fight, then, well, the internet is great for that. If you're looking for our best attempt at answering these questions, then I'll make my best attempt. It will likely fall short. But, like Paul Anderson just posted — In the end, matters of faith cannot be won or lost in debate.
No matter how many times you double-check the parachute, you won't really know works until you jump.
Posted by: Aaron D | 02/22/2011 at 03:56 PM
there are lots of things that cannot be explained by God- check out healingherald.org........God is not something humans can understand,
and God is not someone we can believe in by ourself. God is revealing
Himself to us daily, and trying to draw near to have a relationship.
Bono said it quite right, " no one can convince you of it." I am a firm
believer in Christ and still have questions of doubt, and in those times
God reveals Himself even more.And yes, Case for a Creator is a great read, and Lee Strobel is a terrific
guy to follow His studies on creation and atheism (seeing he was one).Noone can convince anyone of God, only God can work in the hearts of people :)
Posted by: Tara | 02/22/2011 at 04:27 PM
He reminded me of a realization of many years ago when I would smirk at those end-zone displays of piety: Yeah. Right. Like God cares about football. The realization came from the Spirit (it came in the form of slap to the back of my head) was that God delights in those who honor him whether (as I was then) behind the pulpit, on the football field or concert hall. It is refreshing to see an artist who can truly, powerfully and unashamedly make his claims of faith from the perspective of scripture and not just as so much culture babble.
Posted by: Gil T | 02/22/2011 at 04:56 PM
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Great Interview with Bono!
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